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Conversations in the Park
Will AVs ever outsmart humans
The future of autonomous vehicles is upon us - so what does that mean for humans? In this episode our host Brittany Atkins tackles the evolution of AVs in our mobility ecosystem and how that could impact citizens with expert guests Yasmine Fage, Alvaro Ramis, and Patricia La Torre. No stone is left unturned in this episode, so be sure to plug your headphones in and get involved with the discussion.
This podcast is powered by Y-Mobility.
Hello and welcome to episode 13 of the conversations in the park podcast, a place for meaningful discussions about mobility created by y-mobility. I'm Brittany Atkins, your host and resident mobility enthusiast. This time we're getting techie and philosophical, chatting about autonomous vehicles and their relationship with humans. Once again, we've brought together three amazing guests to analyze this subject with me. My first guest today is Patty La Torre, head of strategic partnerships at humanizing autonomy. Hi, Paddy, please do introduce yourself to our guests.
Patty:Hi, everyone. Thank you for having me. Yeah, my name is Patty I'm head of strategic partnerships at humanizing autonomy. So I've been with the startup for almost three years. And what we do, which is a little bit different in the AV context is that we're focusing on vulnerable road users. So everyone outside the vehicle, pedestrian, cyclist, e scooter, wheelchair user, and we're able to analyze, understand and predict the behavior of people. So really kind of different take on it, but a really important one that I think we'll talk about a lot. So yeah, at HA, we're really talking about also ethical AI, which I think is an important piece to this. How do we make it transparent, understandable for people? And then we're also of course, focusing on different use cases. But really, yeah. interested to learn more about what we're going to talk about today? And yeah, looking forward to a good discussion.
Brittany:Brilliant. Thanks so much for sharing Patty. And we also have an old friend of the podcast Yasmine Fage, CEO and co founder at gogo network, who you may recognize from episodes four and eight conversations in the park. Hi, Yasmine. Please do to tell us a little bit more about yourself.
Yasmine:Hi, Brittany. Hi. Yes, sure. We're happy to be back. And so I co founded Goggo network, which is a venture focus on operating autonomous mobility fleets in Europe, with a focus now on logistics, and very happy to tell more during the podcast, and I'll leave the floor for the other guests.
Brittany:Brilliant. Thanks, Yasmine. And last but not least, we have Alvaro Ramis,head of business and strategy, ZF group, please do give us a little introduction on yourself.
Alvaro:Thank you, Brittany. So yeah, I'm Alvaro Ramis, I'm the head of business and strategy of digital solutions in ZF, ZF is a very large German tier 1, is the second largest tier 1 in the world. And we have digital solutions for connected vehicles and also for autonomous vehicles. And I do a little bit of everything, m&a corporate development and strategy in there, and I'm looking forward for the conversation today.
Brittany:Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Very excited to have all of you here today. So to start the discussion, I'd like to set the scene by looking at some of the recent developments in the AV world. We've seen so much from lift planning to build a hybrid network of autonomous and driverless vehicles high and Di's running an autonomous car pilot study in Korea on their ionic five and Geely is launching satellites for future Volvo lotus and Pollstar, AVS. So a open question to all of you what are some recent updates that have impressed you, and making you feel inspired about the future of autonomous vehicles?
Alvaro:I mean, maybe I can start myself i It's always difficult to differentiate between marketing and reality, you know, so in this world, because there's so many companies that are involved in this world that are looking for funding, or they're looking for some attention, whatever it is, so, but I would say for me, the one that I still believe it's the most attractive one, it is the the one from a cruise in, in San Francisco. I, you know, again, I'm not 100% Sure, it is quite limited deployment in many ways, but things are moving forward, you know, against the this overall skepticism there is in the market about the feasibility of autonomy and the timeline. You know, it's, it's a positive thing is very impressive, because also, they were not the guys who were ahead in the market, and now they seem to be at least on papers in it from outside.
Brittany:Go ahead. Yes, mean, do chef.
Yasmine:For me, I was thinking I agree with Alberto on the passenger side, but I think also for me, what is exciting is to see all the development that you can see with logistics, but I would say you know, for smaller last mile delivery, or even like AB trucks that you can see in highway, I think I got a bit you know, as everybody not disillusion, but we have to be patient for at scale at scale at scale, AV fleets, but I think the logistic future is much closer, and that's what is the most exciting.
Brittany:Thank you so much, Yasmine. And how about yourself Paddy? I'm wondering Anything on the ethical side that you're excited about?
Patty:Yeah, I think first of all, it's really interesting to see that it's quite International, we're having really good use cases from different countries that have different regulation examples, different market acceptance levels. So I think that's a really important aspect of it. And then, yeah, I think what we're really looking forward to is to see that ethical doesn't just become a secondary, but it's actually a really important first requirement. So some of these talks about it more than others, and 12 hours point about the marketing and how it's being portrayed. So I think there's still some room for improvement, but the discourse is changing around that.
Alvaro:Yeah. And kind of make a point of that, is the fact that to raise money, it's funny enough, because autonomy needs to be highly regulated to scale as and commercialize. But anything regarding steps regarding regulation is not really on the top of the news, but it actually is the most important thing that needs to happen. First, regulation. So yeah, I think I'm really looking forward to hearing from patio. So for view on different things around the world. I like
Brittany:the idea of building as we mean to go on as well. So maybe a little bit more black mirror esque question can cause actually outsmart humans? Will we see that? Any thoughts here?
Alvaro:Is that question actually is? That's not difficult, I think.
Brittany:Yeah, not from how I'm fairly
Yasmine:sure, I would be controversial, it's, it's?
Alvaro:Well, I think it depends on what you compare it to. So I'm gonna be like, I'm sure to all of you happens. The same that when you talk in a party, you happen to me this weekend at a birthday party of a friend. When you start saying that the work in autonomous projects, people start asking 1000 questions to you. One of the most common ones is like when is going to be ready, you know, so and I think that the main message is, that depends what you compare it to. So if you compare it with the current human driver of a vehicle on the, on the road, yeah, it's not going to be very, very difficult. The problem is that autonomy is not going to be compared with a driver, the current driver is going to be compared with an airline, you know, so more is going to be regulation is going to be a suspect, or even more, that what happens with airlines before a plane takes off. The training that the people involved in supporting a plane they need to go through is tremendous, you know, so that is going to take a lot longer, you know, so the first one, it will be somewhat quick, I would say being better than current drivers and having less deaths on human driven vehicles, is going to be somewhat easy. being as good as a plane, which is the safest mode of transportation. Both that's gonna be challenging, and I have no answer to that one.
Brittany:Really good point. Maybe my next question then is which areas can we expect kind of autonomous vehicles to really outsmart humans? Or where is that going to make the biggest kind of positive impact? Any thoughts from you there Paddy? Oh, yes, mean on that?
Patty:I think Yasmine is going to talk about logistics. And that piece, I think that's completely the Right Sector, the first step. So I'll hand it off to you for those insights.
Yasmine:Okay, no, I mean, I think also, when we say outsmart, we have to really define what we mean because actually, I think the human brain is, I don't know if we're gonna outsmart the human brain for driving. But I think just by being able to create controlled environment, where for instance, there is no other human driving in the same area being dedicated lane or being an area that is your fence without cars will allow for actually systematic algorithm that then in a sense, have less likelihood of irrational behavior. or so in this instance, you can get to maybe a closer to less accident ratio, which maybe should be the objective of like, as marginal outsmarting is, how likely are you to really have an accident? So then in this case, I think clearly this is going to be the focus and then in terms of benefits, I think, of course, like main benefits of giving time back to people when they're not driving or being able to have vehicles that are like you know, free mission that are more adjusted to the cities and so on. Of course, this will be like positive change both to the environment and i think to just humans in general. Because except for like the fanatics of you know, driving vintage car on the weekend, most people would rather have one or two hours biker than being stuck in traffic, right. So and this also we create, of course, like economic impact. Was there will be a positive reinvestment on either consumption if you're doing like, you know, shopping or if you're working during these hours or doing other benefits use or even leisure. But what I mean is that there's right now a lot of time that is just lost.
Brittany:I think what's always great about asking these open ended questions is I learned something quite telling about our guests. And I found that a virus seems to be a far more pessimistic, or have a far more pessimistic view of human intelligence in comparison to yours mean. Which is good to learn and something I wasn't expecting to learn. So what I want to ask us next, when when maybe what are our predictions on when we're going to feel that real shift towards autonomous vehicle, we have different targets? We have different predictions. But where, as for you, as guests, do you feel like we are in the development phase that we're looking at things in a few years times, decades time? When do you expect for us to feel a shift in autonomous vehicles? Perhaps, you know, making improvements on our efficiency of travel and our safety of travel?
Yasmine:Yeah, I mean, I can think that, at least to start, and then I let her borrow and the add on but I think again, it depends really on the use cases. So having just a date doesn't make any sense for any technology it needs to be for which use case and which environments. So is it like, again, a private side? Is it a public road? Is it at which speed right? Is it below 15? Five, it is on the highway. So I think we will see a lot of different use cases growing up like mushrooms and then scaling. If the question is, when do we have right hailing a V at scale? This is the stingray question. I think it will be the ultimate use case. Because this is basically when you can have high speed and very complex environment. But I think today we're already seeing use cases, as I was saying in privatizing logistics, then I think it will be like highway trucking would be the next big one. And I think in terms of lower speech shadows, they should be also at the same stage. So I think, first would be logistic use cases, because there is no people inside at the end of the day, you should see what is the simpler for the technology. So if there are no people inside, it's simpler if it's in a controlled environment, it's simpler. It is not mixed with as regards simpler. If it's at lower speeds simpler. And then you see how what are the use case that you can set over time? So I think between now in the next 10 years, we will see those use case growing?
Brittany:Great point. Yes. mean anything to add anything to add there, Paddy of our on that?
Patty:Yeah, I think we're in the middle of it, right? If you look at the hype cycle, it's gonna keep going up and down, they'll be the next big thing that we talked about a couple months, and then we get back to kind of these use cases. But there are industries that are far ahead of mobility, mining, farming, the sectors are looking at this, and, you know, back to the use cases, less people a lot easier. So I think we sit here thinking we have this groundbreaking idea. And there's, you know, aviation as well, there is a lot of autonomous use cases. And there's already so it goes back to how can we leverage those, how can we expand those and use them as examples for society understand that this isn't the scary, outsmart flying car that you're gonna have? It's, you're already interacting with it every single day, you don't even realize it. I think that's, that's what's gonna have to happen for mass acceptance to happen.
Brittany:It's brilliant point, Paddy.
Alvaro:Also on that point, is the fact that those industries and you were talking about mining and on yard automation, and this kind of use case, those industries, and I've been fortunate enough to engage with people from those industries, and public transportation and many industries in transportation. And those industries, funnily enough, are the ones that are also more educated. So they really have a very good understanding autonomy and improve their operation. When you go with transportation of people there, they're still not very sure how this is going to fit, what kind of use cases there is going to be valuable for them and everything else. When you go talk with a mine operator, they know perfectly well. And they also know the KPIs they want to hit and the cost that they're willing to pay. So they a lot more mature. And I think the rest of the industry is they need to go through that process. I mean, autonomous vehicles in seaports for instance. ATVs have been around for over 20 years. They learn a lot of things just 20 years and they understand how autonomous vehicles are going to be deployed in a seaport. So each industry is going to take some meaningful time to grow to that level of maturity.
Brittany:For that, that's a really interesting point. I hadn't thought about looking towards other industries before for kind of examples and right maybe even like recipes for success and guidelines on on how to make you know something autonomous a reality and, and what that means So you touched on are very touched on the point of we're obviously discussing or maybe not, obviously, but we seem to be going down the path of autonomous vehicles for transport for humans. What do we imagine the kind of new normal to look like? We've spoken a lot about this phrase, the new normal kind of post pandemic, and what that means in the world of work and what that means in the world of life. But for once taking new normal away away from COVID. And we think about new normal, perhaps with the introduction of autonomous vehicles. What perhaps, could this new, you know, fantastic, normal look like for people transforming from A to B? How do you imagine it?
Alvaro:Well, I think the regional view has a huge impact to answer that question. So for instance, if I really think in the US autonomy, unfortunately, in many US cities, and also probably the Middle East is going to be replacing the private car with an autonomous car, you know, so actually thinks may even get better at worse rather than better for a while because people will use their private car even longer than they're doing it. Now. I don't think that's going to happen in Europe, for instance, at all, I really think the regulator has learned a lot of things these last 1230 years from ride hailing, from scooter sharing from bike sharing from every new mobility that has come up car sharing, and they learned that they need to regulate it, in order for it to have a true impact into the city. And now, I mean, I remember years ago talking with city officials, they had no idea how to deal with mobility that was outside rotation. Now there are so much more educated there are so much more demanding. And I believe that will have an impact on the way autonomy will be deployed in European cities. And I believe European cities will be highly integrated on the transportation of people on public transportation, use cases that will be either replacing or complementary to existing public transportation. Otherwise, cities like Paris, or Milan or London, or Madrid, they will not allow autonomous vehicles roaming around for without any kind of control or logic. But again, that's I think there's gonna be a two world approach to this. China, by the way, I believe is going to be quite similar to the European point of view because of the already variable traffic that is in Chinese cities.
Brittany:And Paddy, I want to ask you the same question, please. What do you think the new or maybe so get away from this new normal phrase? Like the better normal? What could that look like?
Patty:To me, it's more user centric. So when you think about cities today and living in London, but you know why a bus stops where they are, it seems like I'm just randomly we've been placed on spots where, you know, we have a lot of room and we can have a bus Park. Yeah, even though most of the time that's really inconvenient spots for the rest of traffic when the bus tries to weave back in. So especially during rush hour. So the idea is that understand how and why people are using infrastructure, whether in urban or rural settings, understand what's happening, what changes can be made to make it more efficient and safer. So is it changing traffic lights? Is it changing the layout? Is it getting rid of planes, whatever that needs to be, but really just thinking about what we do and why we do it, take that into consideration, because Now's the chance to do it. See with electrification, you have a chance to change behaviors, to increase the acceptance, the uptake, so even that is part of a new normal new uptake nowadays. So we need to really kind of just Yeah, think about our behaviors. Why are we doing them? What's going on? How can we change them? How can we incentivize to change them, and use that to create and then through that you will happen to technologies, you know, there'll be something beyond autonomous, there'll be something in between again? So that's really kind of my, my wish, I think, is that yeah, the bus stop I go to in the morning that is randomly located somewhere in London that someone decided to put there. Let's have a think about where else can they be or why do we have them so close to each other? It's really inefficient. So these kinds of things, I really hope change in this new wave, whatever you want to call it.
Yasmine:Yeah, maybe to add on by this point. I agree. I think it's about like user centric and user like experience I think you will just have like you have a membership for phone you will have a membership for mobility that gives you different type of services from you know, micro mobility to AV services, I think it will be much more like a shared mobility word where you will have don't have to go to the bus stop. I don't even think the bus stop still exists. I think they will pick you up at different virtual stops based on, you know, for instance, when Uber is picking you up now, and this is just walked 200 meters, I think it will be something like that, but you might on top have to share it with a couple of people. So micro vans, then will bring you to a different location. And that's it. And then I think also that it will change a bit the way people look at real estate and cities. Because if suddenly you don't have to worry so much about traffic, you don't have to worry so much about driving, then, you know, on top of the trend of like, remote work, but taking this apart, I think then you don't need to think so much I need to be so close to my office, and then I think then it will allow city to maybe spread out. So I think it will impact not only like just the way people move, but also the way people live and make the decision on cities and so on and infrastructure.
Patty:Yeah. And to add to that point is how do you like restructure then the spaces that you have? So the bus stops that we don't need anymore? Turn them into green spots? Benches? The parking spots
Yasmine:already happening? Like what are you doing with the parking slots in cities? How do you convert that in green spaces? How do you make sure the CDR like now much more people centric instead of card centric, right? So that's all this story.
Brittany:I love how much has just come out of what you can the change you can make to society from moving a bus stop, I can just it's like a domino effect of you've helped out somebody with physical mobility issues. So you've given somebody access to transport, maybe that impacts where they live, where they work, maybe that impacts house prices around a bus stop, maybe they can be more uniform, because it's not so important to be within a few minutes walk. So I hadn't realized the butterfly effect from just moving a bus stop. But I'm quite excited to see what could happen.
Alvaro:Yeah, I mean, many bus lines have not been thought out at all. And if they have mates ago that they looked into it. So it has, but but also is the impact economic impact. I mean, we have, we cannot forget that public transportation is a highly subsidized business. In Europe, between 30 to 70% of the ticket price of ride is being subsidized one way or another London is a little bit of an exception, but overall, it is the case. So you will also release if we do bring more optimal options of transportation in the city, we'll release money to do all the things you know, with our money, whatever it may be, that the citizens of that city wants to do.
Brittany:So spoken a bit about potentially moving bus stops, any other quick wins for autonomous vehicles, things that you could see could quickly make an impact or with you know, in maybe in cities, where we could, you know, maybe are set up to already embrace that change. And then perhaps the opposite. Maybe areas where you've think it's going to be more of a struggle for AV to take off or you know, AV if we're taking a more optimistic view of human intelligence, like yours mean today, things where you think the human is always going to outsmart or, you know, be the best to make a choice.
Yasmine:I think we spoke about the benefits of not having vehicles that are oversized and polluting in city centers. So I think I hope this is a priority now, to think smartly on how many vehicles are needed for the population? And what is the best format they can use again, like do you really need to own a car, I think we're going toward less car ownership do you need to get into green and electric and it has even for logistic and it did a size that makes sense for city. So thing for me, this is one of the biggest impact if like 40% of the emission right now I don't buy like 20% of trucks 95% of the time, the cars are Park, like the space like you have 1.2 people per car, like all of this is just nonsense in terms of like, if you look at, you know, just the data and the way it's structured today, so if we can just get a little bit more rational, that allows us to free pace in cities. And as I was saying, I think it will be just a benefit, to have more walkable space, more green space, more space to play, to have art to just make cities more human. And there is this cartoon and if you ever see that shows, like a cities and then shows all the streets and all the things that are done for cars, and then remove it and make it an empty space. And it's insane. Like you realize that like basically, there's almost more space for cars than for like for humans. So I think that's one one big things. And then as I was saying, I think of course like there's also all debate about people that have reduced mobility, bit by handicap or being by just living in rural areas. And so at the end of the you're creating a much more affordable capillary network because 70% of the cost of driving is the driver are. And so if you can recreate roads that are, you know, going to rural areas, if you can allow people like cannot drive to actually have a right to a place where they can work, you just you're also making the society more cohesive as a whole right. So for me, there's like social benefits also on top of a sustainability benefit and architectural infrastructure benefit.
Brittany:Fantastic. Any more quick wins to AVS to add or maybe limitations for AVS to add?
Patty:I think it is the chance of the word outsmart I think is quite the buzzword here controversial one that we keep jumping on. But I think you have to start by teaching machines how to understand behavior, it's not you can't go from zero to 100, you have to first kind of get the neutral ground, right. And so, and kind of the idea is that, you know, we as humans, we understand what a pedestrian is going to do based on their body language based on their behaviors, machines will be able to understand the same things if we're treating them right if we're doing the right approaches. So I think you have to start there first, then they can react more human Lee. So it's not about this art smarting. But it's then the opportunity improve safety, efficiency, you know, the things being electric as well. So it's not about outsmarting. But it's about I think, working together and having this kind of more humanistic worlds, it's maybe how I would perceive it to be
Brittany:anything from UEFA, or one that
Alvaro:I was trying to think on the challenging side, I have to admit a is difficult not to see an area where autonomy is going to bring a benefit, even if it's not the whole thing, but some benefits. So even even areas where you think it's quite optimized transportation, so for instance, areas with high density that being served by subway or train, or buses, where the cost of drivers are very, very small amount of money. So taking the driver out is not very economically, I still believe there are many things because as we were saying before, it's about not changing only the getting rid of the driver is about changing the whole business concept. And doing it as Patty said, more customer centric, you know, so yeah, I think we'll, I don't see any negative one, or limited impact. We're autonomy, I think it's gonna touch everything. Really?
Brittany:That's good. Well, you give me a really nice seamless segue into I know, next question. So I'll thank you for that. Because I'm conscious that we're all coming from the bubble of perhaps mobility, expertise, and you know, enthusiasm. So it's very easy for us to get excited about the opportunity for change and what that might bring. As we know, with any change, you've got the kind of trust issue to combat so there will still be many people in the world that think no way would I ever get if I get in a driverless vehicle, and I don't want to see driverless vehicles on my street. You know, I don't trust technology, because my Wi Fi cuts out or this happens, and what happens if that, you know, if I'm on the street, or I'm in the vehicle? So I'd be interested in know, what you think the kind of general confidence level is of perhaps the average consumer on embracing, you know, the change towards autonomous vehicles and how we think that might that may change and you know, when we think that may change,
Yasmine:so yeah, go ahead. But I have a strong opinion. I'm
Brittany:just so excited.
Patty:It's a lot of pressure, my answer, but yeah, I think people don't understand it yet. And therefore, you get different views, opinions, different polls, you know, when you really think about it, like it goes back to the marketing, how it's being advertised. But because people don't fully understand the here where it's like AV AI, deep learning, those are terrifying words, the general public, they don't understand what they mean, what's encompass, they don't trust them, and won't use them. This is the ethical AI component, actually, is that mandating having government mandate that, you know, AI should be explainable that you can look at the code that a person not an engineer, a regular person can understand why the software made the decisions of good, then you'll trust it and you're more likely to use it. So that's kind of this idea behind it that thing until we get to that point and then know the aviation industry, but Alvaro, you know, I completely agree that aviation is a really good use case an example. But think about how many people it takes before the plane takes off. How many checks balances how much training pilots need to be able to use the planes continuously the right ideas for autonomous vehicles. We like to have a driver's license because I don't need to operate it. So it's almost this like we in the industry. We keep looking at this example being like, oh, you know, you sit and self plot self life planes all the time. And it's great. But that's actually maybe a bad example, because that takes so much safety, compliance regulation, you know, heavy machinery. So, yeah. So to summarize, I think there's opportunity, I think there will be uptake. But it has to be the right use cases it has to be marketed correctly, has to be supported by government the right way. So it takes an ecosystem, it won't be a single player that changes our behaviors and won't be a single use case. So just been has been saying about different use cases, different acceptance, but it will be possible we have a little bit way to go. But yeah, I'll stay optimistic today.
Brittany:Thanks, Paddy. Okay.
Yasmine:I agree with Paddy, with the concept that like, I don't think people really understand yet what it is. And there's a lot of like, you know, in conscious Fantasma, but the concept of autonomous driving that has been driven by you know, I think movies, a lot of things, but I think at the end of the day, it's like, people don't have AI. But I disagree with the fact that people have to understand the algorithm like nobody understand how planning works, and the ongoing. I think when people see like the benefits of a solution that works for them, that is less costly, and that has, you know, then it works to just use it. Like we should take the example of where in Miami, they are doing like a service in a resident, old people's, you know, home, and you would say that they're less likely to understand and to enter, but they don't care. Like it allows them to go see their friends, easily in another location without driving. And it's perfect. And it reminds me always what my co founders said about cell phones, when the launcher company and fiber optics, when you had when you did all the surveys, and I think they're still public, like nobody wanted the phone to call in the street, like everybody was like, I will never use this. And now like 95% of people are saying I don't use it. So I don't want to be judgmental now on humans, because I think we're very smart. But I don't think we always know what we want until it's there. Right? And I think the moment there's a solution that works, I think acceptance you will be there
Brittany:are no yes. mean you are meant to be our ambassador for human and intelligence. You were the one earlier protecting us. But I would have loved to be known
Yasmine:as my role failed vocation, because I think this is the biggest mystery on Earth to solve, that we use 2% of our brain and we don't even understand how but it's another podcast topic.
Brittany:It doesn't matter how you position it, Yasmine. It's fine. If you've joined us all in pessimism that Tech has already outsmarted us. We may as well just give up. All right, any points or thoughts from you on the on the trust piece?
Alvaro:Yeah, just reinforcement. What Patti and just mean said I remember years ago, I've been working in mobility services for a few years in different types. And years ago, I, we were looking to launch carsharing a free float ushering in European city. I remember we did all these studies before deciding the city and also this engaging with potential customers there. And it was so difficult because it's years ago, when they were known many mobility services. So people didn't really understand this concept that you could see a car on on your phone, and you can open the car and you do drive it and you drop it somewhere else. Something that is so easy to understand now. And I remember, sometimes we would be like going completely blind to launching into that city because we would like okay, people, they're not going to like it. And many times, that was a complete opposite. You know, it was a very big success many times because once people really engage and understand how it fits into their lives as then everything else, all the fears, they had all the concerns, all the things they didn't fully understand that it's really solved. We actually measure everywhere success was the second right, not even the first one, the first one, they're too nervous, they are trying to understand what's going on and everything else. Maybe it's a little bit exciting. But the second time they really try it, then they start thinking, Oh, okay, maybe tomorrow I can take my kids to the doctor with this thing, you know, so they start really fitting into their lives. And that's when they all their concerns regarding technology and everything else. They overcome them.
Brittany:Thank you so much.
Patty:And just to echo that and going off that is right. It's about the level of explainability correct, but what do you mean that definitely think overcomplicating? It, you know, we're talking about autonomous vehicles, you're talking to someone about a driver SR ADA system, you know, as simple as the reversing sensor on your car, you know that that is a an abling technology to autonomous vehicles. If you sold it as that to people. It'd be like people
Yasmine:like in Paris There is for like the last seven or 10 years, we have like two autonomous subway lines. So there is no driver in the subway Do you think anybody has asked or there's a driver in the subway or not? Nobody cares, like the subway is always on time is cleaner than most of the other line. It goes faster. Everybody's happy. So you just need to have a product. Yeah,
Patty:it goes back to we're using these technologies all the time already. Well, that's people know, the better.
Brittany:Well, this has been such an enjoyable and educational session. So thank you so much, Paddy, Yasmine, Alvaro, few, always jot down a few takeaways for myself. What I've learned from these discussions, and I like the few that have really stood out to me, that we can predict and learn so much about the future of autonomous vehicles from industries that are already really leading in autonomy that others might not be so aware of, we can look at mining and aviation industries. The importance of using consumer friendly language and education and marketing to not turn people away and just focus on the you know, the benefits to you rather than the ins and outs of intricate technology which can start kind of evoking fear in people. And then finally, one that I just think is humorous that we have a group of very intelligent individuals all looking and speaking to one another. But we're still putting our faith in technology being smarter than everybody here on today's meeting, so if that isn't, you know, if that doesn't spare you, or that isn't an advertisement to learn and get involved and invest in autonomous vehicles, I don't really know what will so thank you so much, Paddy, Yasmine Navarro for this very insightful session. If our guests want to get in touch after the show, how best is it for them to do that? And I'll try to go in the order that I introduced you in so paddy if anybody wanted to get in touch after listening to today's episode, how can they find you or reach you?
Patty:Yeah, our company website humanizing. autonomy.com There's a get in touch button. And that is the easiest way to do it.
Brittany:Perfect. And yourself, please. Yes, me. Yeah,
Yasmine:I think my email or website email I think it's info at Gmail dot networker. Yes. Me that go good at network
Brittany:traffic. Thank you. And Alvaro?
Alvaro:For me is LinkedIn probably the best option? I actually
Yasmine:LinkedIn is even better for me. Let me copy this.
Brittany:There we go. Well, thank you so much for your time. Thank you to our listeners, and I hope you enjoy today's episode and look forward to seeing it next.
